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Date:	11/20/99 12:02:25 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, November 20 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1367<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
Re: PBEM??<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re : Disabling Weapons<BR>
Re : Whanga (was Tourism in the Marches)<BR>
re: Looking for Travellers' Digest Adventures 1-21<BR>
Re: Totally OT but ...<BR>
Re: PBEM??<BR>
Re: The naming of things<BR>
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_That_explains_the_=91Don=92t_throw_Eggs__?=  at  the PM  Act,<BR>
Re: Totally OT but ...<BR>
Re: New BITS product hinted at<BR>
Re: MTU Imperial Justice (was: IMoJ)<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: The naming of things<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
No longer totally OT( was Re: Totally OT but ...)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 00:58:09 -0500<BR>
From: "Micheal D. Peters" <Travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 8:58 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Steal^H^H^H^H^Hborrow an idea from David Weber. There's a local<BR>
> bacterium, probably entire *familes*(in the taxonomic sense) of them,<BR>
> that just *loves* chlorophyll.<BR>
><BR>
> Short of destroying the *entire* planetary ecology and starting over,<BR>
> there's just no way to get chlorophyll based plants to last more than<BR>
> *days* on the planet.<BR>
><BR>
> Luckily these bugs are tied to the local ecology well enough that they<BR>
> don't survive well off world.<BR>
><BR>
> This has some interesting effects. For example, a number of foods won't<BR>
> keep well on world. Brocolli and spinach, to name just a couple. Things<BR>
> like lettuce and cabbage, which don't have all that much chlorophyll in<BR>
> them keep better, though not as well as on earth. And foods with *no*<BR>
> chlorophyll content (corn, grain, root veggies, etc) keep normally.<BR>
><BR>
> This will affect menus, and prices.<BR>
><BR>
Actually this is a better  idea than "aggressive" plant life. After all If<BR>
that was the problem then enclosed hydroponics (sic?) should be able to<BR>
survive... potentially needing occational burnouts and re-seeding but seeds<BR>
would keep well. A chlorophyll eating bug is harder to block out. It also<BR>
excludes most terran-like animals, since the plant life would be so<BR>
different as to be totally unusable as fodder.<BR>
<BR>
Also a bug that has any lifespan beyond the planet's surface (say 1-2 days)<BR>
would exclude orbital food factories. Quarantine being decreasingly effect<BR>
vs. time and concidering how often shuttles would be moving between the<BR>
surface and the orbital station, it's nearly certain that the crop would be<BR>
infected.<BR>
<BR>
Then there is also the Imperial (secret!) research station that is<BR>
attempting to create a strain that wWILL live off world... The perfect<BR>
bio-warfare agent to "seed" on the Zho controled worlds. They are also<BR>
looking for an antidote to clean the worlds with once the bugs have done<BR>
their job!<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 22:28:28 -0800<BR>
From: "Tim MacPherson" <timac@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: PBEM??<BR>
<BR>
Well thanks but I was looking for a Traveller PBEM game<BR>
<BR>
Tim MacPherson<BR>
Kelowna,BC <BR>
CANADA<BR>
timac@home.com<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 6:26 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: PBEM??<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Sure, Tim, there's one I've just signed onto, you can<BR>
> write them at: ShdoOps@aol.com. It's a kind of<BR>
> spies/special forces in Star Trek thingy... will it be<BR>
> good? We'll see:) I'll try to find the web page for<BR>
> you...<BR>
> <BR>
> --- Tim MacPherson <timac@home.com> wrote:<BR>
> > Hi all<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Is there any PBEM groups looking for a player?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Tim MacPherson<BR>
> > Kelowna,BC <BR>
> > CANADA<BR>
> > timac@home.com<BR>
> >  <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 22:42:56 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Anyway, don't you think terror weapons will be more<BR>
> common? Anybody remember Babylon 5, where the<BR>
> Centaurans bombarded Narn from orbit, basically<BR>
> dropiing rocks on their cities? Doesn't prevent<BR>
> guerilla warfare, of course, but artillery has NEVER<BR>
> been that useful against insurgencies, do we expect<BR>
> that to change in the future?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I'm not so sure that this will be the case. One of the lessons which is<BR>
impressed upon students in their Officer's Advanced Course and C&GS (this is<BR>
my US Army experience talking here) is that the law of land warfare exists<BR>
and is generally followed because it makes sense to. Violating it may get<BR>
you short-term gains, but the long-run result is generally unfavorable.<BR>
(It's one of the few things I still remember from these schools. That and<BR>
the bogus class on training management paperwork which I managed to fail by<BR>
virtue of ignoring all of the content. Well, maybe a few more things, but<BR>
that would be straying way off topic.) You can find volume after volume of<BR>
case studies which demonstrate this point.<BR>
<BR>
This is the ultimate reason why it is very unlikely that such things like<BR>
near-c rocks will be regularly used as weapons. Maybe once in a while by<BR>
renegades, but not as a weapon of choice. Civilizations which progress far<BR>
enough to reach advanced technology will also have come to the same<BR>
conclusion.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 03:49:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
From: Luther Martin <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I'm not so sure that this will be the case. One of the lessons which is<BR>
>impressed upon students in their Officer's Advanced Course and C&GS (this<BR>
is<BR>
>my US Army experience talking here) is that the law of land warfare exists<BR>
>and is generally followed because it makes sense to.<BR>
<BR>
The cynic in me reads this and considers the source. I don't mean that as an<BR>
insult to you, but it's obvious that an armed service branch that<BR>
specializes in land warfare is going to say that the law of land warfare<BR>
exists and is generally followed because it makes sense to.<BR>
<BR>
One would imagine that someone who joined a branch of the armed services<BR>
that specialized in land warfare wouldn't get to a point where they'd be<BR>
able to teach policy if they believed that no "law of land warfare" exists,<BR>
and that it is generally followed out of tradition, not because it's<BR>
rational or sensible to do so.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not saying that I hold that belief, only that I am not surprised to hear<BR>
that the U.S. Army teaches a doctrine thats says that there is a reason for<BR>
an organization specializing in land warfare to exist, and that reason is a<BR>
rational one.<BR>
<BR>
With all due respect, though, that doesn't really tell us alot concerning<BR>
whether or not land warfare would be seen as effective by those who hold<BR>
positions of responsibility (or more cynically, those who pay the bills) in<BR>
the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
>Violating it may get<BR>
>you short-term gains, but the long-run result is generally unfavorable.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough. What are these long term gains that would be gained as a result<BR>
of ground warfare that wouldn't be gained through the use of cheap but<BR>
excessive force (as in orbital bombardment) or any variation on this theme?<BR>
<BR>
In this case, I'm putting the powerful traditional romantic notion of the<BR>
infantry soldier aside. Ordinarily, I don't like to sweep such things under<BR>
the carpet, but in this case I feel that it is justified. This is an appeal<BR>
to tradition, and as a result it naturally follows that it  is descriptive,<BR>
not prescriptive. In other words, based on experience, such a notion<BR>
describes things as they *have* been up to this point, and does not<BR>
prescribe as they might be, nor as they will be.<BR>
<BR>
In this sense, I'm trying to head off possible misinterpretations that may<BR>
lead people to reply by saying something like, "Well, as everyone knows you<BR>
always need a doughboy down in the trenches and the mud." For the sake of<BR>
discussion, let me say that I *don't* know that.<BR>
<BR>
How am I to be convinced that the Imperium (or other major interstellar<BR>
power) won't see value in dropping big, cheap rocks on major cities in order<BR>
to get their way?<BR>
<BR>
>that would be straying way off topic.) You can find volume after volume of<BR>
>case studies which demonstrate this point.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps, but it still boils down to description, not prescription.<BR>
<BR>
>This is the ultimate reason why it is very unlikely that such things like<BR>
>near-c rocks will be regularly used as weapons. Maybe once in a while by<BR>
>renegades, but not as a weapon of choice.<BR>
<BR>
Well, why not? ;)<BR>
<BR>
>Civilizations which progress far<BR>
>enough to reach advanced technology will also have come to the same<BR>
>conclusion.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I can't tell you how many times, in the last few months, I've read<BR>
variations of this same statement concerning just about everything under the<BR>
sun. ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 20:58:33 +1100<BR>
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re : Disabling Weapons<BR>
<BR>
Frank Pitt (and Ian Ferguson) wrote :-<BR>
> >Sprays as a foam like normal fire retardant foam, hardens in<BR>
> >seconds, cops come along later with solvent to extract the<BR>
> >rioters individually<BR>
> <BR>
>         I understand that the foam allows one to breath through<BR>
>         it. The problem with similar current Real World (tm)<BR>
>         measures is the danger of suffocation. At what TL would<BR>
>         the breathable stuff become available?<BR>
> <BR>
We can manufacture aerogels now, but they're pretty wispy, natch.<BR>
Some sort of gel with O2/CO2 exchange properties would be the go ; a<BR>
perfluorocarbon analog with plasticiser? We could also do this now. You<BR>
could breathe for a little while. The initial sensation of drowning as<BR>
the goo enters your throat and lungs would be - unpleasant.<BR>
<BR>
> >"epileptics"  from Jerry Cornelius<BR>
> >A set of strobe lights flicking at the frequencies that cause<BR>
> >epileptic seizures in the majority of people.<BR>
> <BR>
>         I'm not sure that this has any basis in fact. Perhaps<BR>
>         Robert could comment.<BR>
> <BR>
This works - sometimes - if you are epileptic. It only gives ordinary<BR>
folk headaches.<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 20:58:38 +1100<BR>
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re : Whanga (was Tourism in the Marches)<BR>
<BR>
Ethan Henry wrote :-<BR>
>  A world well suited for<BR>
> human life - with one minor exception. No one has ever been able to get<BR>
> agriculture to work on the planet's surface.<BR>
<BR>
The obvious answer is 'eat (make edible) the local plant material and<BR>
build orbital greenhouses for the stuff that won't grow on the surface'.<BR>
<BR>
Let's have a think about how the premise could be true, though.<BR>
Temperature, atmospheric composition (and particulate concentrations),<BR>
humidity and water availability, and background radiation levels are<BR>
'Terran-normal'.<BR>
<BR>
i. Chemistry<BR>
- - toxic 'trace' elements or compounds ; salinity ; pH<BR>
ii. Biological<BR>
- - biochemistry (missing nutrients, molecular counterfeits) ;<BR>
- - lack of soil symbionts (antibacterial/fungal substances produced by<BR>
local life);<BR>
- - ecological competition from local life.<BR>
iii. Other<BR>
- - sabotage<BR>
- - belligerent native sophonts?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The atmospheric taint<BR>
> doesn't really exist, it was just put there by an early survey team who<BR>
> couldn't think of any better explanation for the dead colony they came across.<BR>
Maybe it does. Filter masks are worn to prevent causative spores,<BR>
(whatever). from lodging in the airways, the only place in a human they<BR>
can inhabit.<BR>
<BR>
> Not to mention hauling<BR>
> all the, er, shit (for lack of a better word) back out.<BR>
You don't have to with fusion power. Turn it into simple hydrocarbons.<BR>
If abundant energy isn't available, burn it, bury it, or terraform the<BR>
place with it.<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:17:18 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Looking for Travellers' Digest Adventures 1-21<BR>
<BR>
At 0:48 -0500 20/11/99,  "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net>  wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I am interested in obtaining copies of all the adventures in the<BR>
>Travellers' Digest involving Akidda Laagir, Dur Telemon, Dr. Theodor<BR>
>Krenstein, and Aybee Wan Owen. It'll be for research into their<BR>
>characters and how they changed over the years they "toured" together,<BR>
>but also for two other purposes:<BR>
>1) Putting up a web page devoted to these characters, and<BR>
>2) I have an idea for getting these people together again for a second "tour."<BR>
<BR>
There is a DGP publication entitled something like 'the early <BR>
adventures' which has all the original Traveller's Digest adventures <BR>
in, and doesn't seem to be that expensive 2nd hand.<BR>
<BR>
>If anyone has access to ALL their adventures, please contact me<BR>
>off-list. If anyone from the DGP staff is on this list, please do the<BR>
>same. I may also contact Marc Miller regarding these characters.<BR>
<BR>
Be careful - I'm not sure if the characters or event are referred to <BR>
in any of the GDW published material. I think the MT player's <BR>
handbook uses them as examples *but* doesn't elaborate on their <BR>
background. This could put you on a slippery legal slope, as MM may <BR>
not be able to give permission for you to use them (as DGP's material <BR>
is owned by Roger <spit> Sanger who is in dispute with MM). The <BR>
characters were developed in house by DGP...<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 19:14:10 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Totally OT but ...<BR>
<BR>
>That was pretty interesting there, I would never have caught that.<BR>
><BR>
>On another note, I would like to ask the gang here what their experiences<BR>
>have been buying from Amazon.com?  I purchased "Age of Empires 2" at their<BR>
>site almost a month ago and they agreed to ship it within 3-7 days.  As you<BR>
>can probably tell, the wait time has far exceeded that.<BR>
><BR>
>I have emailed them several times inquiring as to where my purchased<BR>
>software is and they have chosen to ignore me.  By looking at my credit card<BR>
>statement, I find a clear record of the completed transaction.<BR>
><BR>
>Which leads me to my second question :  What are my rights in this case?  Is<BR>
>there anyway I can make then uphold their end of the bargain or am I just<BR>
>SOL?<BR>
<BR>
That one's easy. Contact your credit charge company and get the charge<BR>
reversed. That's what I did when Imperium Games took several months to not<BR>
ship my order.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:05:53 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: PBEM??<BR>
<BR>
Is this another Interactive Fiction game?  or an actually RPG?<BR>
<BR>
Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Sure, Tim, there's one I've just signed onto, you can<BR>
> write them at: ShdoOps@aol.com. It's a kind of<BR>
> spies/special forces in Star Trek thingy... will it be<BR>
> good? We'll see:) I'll try to find the web page for<BR>
> you...<BR>
><BR>
> --- Tim MacPherson <timac@home.com> wrote:<BR>
> > Hi all<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Is there any PBEM groups looking for a player?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Tim MacPherson<BR>
> > Kelowna,BC<BR>
> > CANADA<BR>
> > timac@home.com<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
<BR>
shimmer@mhtc.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:15:24<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The naming of things<BR>
<BR>
At 06:03 PM 11/19/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: What kind of name is Alkhalikoi anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Sounds Hawaiian/Polynesian<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:14:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_That_explains_the_=91Don=92t_throw_Eggs__?=  at  the PM  Act,<BR>
<BR>
At 10:15 PM 11/19/1999 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>As to Penguin throwing, I know the book will be packed out with the <BR>
>rules and notes so I've the following suggestion. If anyone wants to <BR>
>write scenarios for ACQ, and draw up a deckplan, I'll host them on <BR>
>the BITS site. (Aside from the AP costs, the scenarios could be <BR>
>written in T4.1 style).<BR>
<BR>
Cool!  That means I'll have a place to put up the Cinematic rules for ACQ.<BR>
Like the Slow Explosion rule:<BR>
<BR>
Any event producing explosive damage travels so slowly that the combatants<BR>
are able to spend AP running away from the explosion.  This move must end<BR>
in a Dive For Cover, during which the *player* must do his best Bruce<BR>
Willis yell.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:19:56 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Totally OT but ...<BR>
<BR>
Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions on amazon.com.  I called<BR>
them voice today and they were concerned about the order; they insitsed they<BR>
had shipped it out promptly and that it was the carrier who dropped the<BR>
ball.  When I discovered the carrier was U.S. Postal service, I understood.<BR>
I don't know about other list members but my experience with US mail has<BR>
been dreadful.  I always try to use UPS whenever possible as I know that if<BR>
US mail can screw it up or lose it, they WILL.  Frankly I'm surprised anyone<BR>
still uses them as inept as they are.<BR>
<BR>
So, on a better note, they offered to ship a replacement free of charge via<BR>
2-day UPs (also at no charge) so I should FINALLY have my game by Wednesday.<BR>
Sigh..  I've been playing the demo and it sucks with all the crippling..Just<BR>
gives you enough to get you howling for the rest.  :)<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:17:59 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: New BITS product hinted at<BR>
<BR>
>is going completely quackers a sideaffect of reading this e-mail?<BR>
>or do you all have trouts about my sanity?<BR>
<BR>
Salmon may think that, but not me.  On the eider hand, my kids think I'm a<BR>
bit of a loon myself. Take a gander it my nuclear landing craft (in 101<BR>
Starships) if you don't believe them.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, tern-about is fair play and all that :-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:05:16 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: MTU Imperial Justice (was: IMoJ)<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Imperial crimes are:<BR>
>><BR>
>> Treason. This, technically, includes refusing an order of the Emperor (or<BR>
>> an Imperial Warrant-holder), or killing a leige-sworn noble acting in His<BR>
>> name.  Comes in different flavours, from High to Common, depending on the<BR>
>> offense and circumstances.<BR>
><BR>
>And if you do the logical thing and have a homage/fealty type model<BR>
>extending all the way down the line, any noble should be able to lodge<BR>
>charges of "treason" against anyone violating their oaths to *him*.<BR>
<BR>
Common treason, yes. Judged by the noble's leige lord. Charges of treason<BR>
are not normally laid except in times of emergency, or in cases of active<BR>
hard. (Ie. ignoring the Duke when he says "pass the peas" at dinner won't<BR>
get you charged with treason.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, this brings up an important point regarding oaths of<BR>
>fealty/homage. Not only do they work both ways (that is, while the<BR>
>underling is obligated to his liege, the lieg has equal obligations to<BR>
>the underling), but there are two more factors.<BR>
><BR>
>First, being in effect "contracts" laying out *mutual* obligations,<BR>
>they can be terminated by *either* party by claiming non-performance<BR>
>(ie the underling can charge his liege with failing to look after the<BR>
>underlings welfare in the manner specified and that terminates the<BR>
>"contract" just as fast as the liege claiming the underling was<BR>
>derelict in the underling's duties). This makes "treason" acting<BR>
>against your liege *without* severing the tie first.<BR>
<BR>
Said severing consisting of a ceremony. Nothing major, but enough that<BR>
saying "I quit, now b****r off." isn't enough.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Second, there's the very important matter of whether or not<BR>
>fealty/homage is transitive. That is, if I'm sworn to Baron X, and he's<BR>
>sworn to Count Y, am I obligated to Count Y? If yes, the relationship<BR>
>is transitive. If no, it isn't. The two possibilities result in *very*<BR>
>different sorts of "politics", but both are arguably possible given<BR>
>what is known of the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Partially, IMTU.  If you are sworn to Baron X, then you are obligated to<BR>
Count Y, but Baron X must pass along the orders unless he has told you to<BR>
obey Count Y. There is nothing to stop you from obeying Count Y of your own<BR>
accord, of course, and obedience is expected (but not required).<BR>
<BR>
This is why the Imperial Navy swears an oath to the Emperor, directly.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Playing fealty/homage "right" makes for interesting legal situations.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
><BR>
>BTW, in a "feudal" setup with oaths between liege and sworn man, even<BR>
>if it's gotten so complex (as it likely would) that the oaths are<BR>
>multipage contracts, you'll have an element that among both the<BR>
>nobility, and the people serving them under such "oaths" ones sworn<BR>
>word is a *very* valuable commodity.<BR>
><BR>
>This presents interesting playing possibilities. Including such things<BR>
>as putting a PC in a spot where he gave his sworn word, and then found<BR>
>out that things were a *lot* more complicated than he'd thought. Now<BR>
>he's got to find a way to keep his word *and* avoid getting in trouble<BR>
>with the law (or getting into some other sort of trouble).<BR>
><BR>
>Being "honorable" can be a *real* bitch at times. :-)<BR>
<BR>
That's why it makes for great gaming. And if you're playing GT, that's why<BR>
it's a disadvantage (although a _reputation_ for being honourable would be<BR>
an advantage, too).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:32:19 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> Or just read John W. Campbell's "Who Goes There?" It's the basis for<BR>
> both versions of "The Thing", and while Carpenter stuck closer to the<BR>
> story, it's possible for you as a ref to do even better. <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Oy.<BR>
I read that story as a teenager. It creeped the hell out of me.<BR>
I always thought it was cool, and I liked Carpenter's remake, as<BR>
he did actually follow the story.  I always speculated though--<BR>
was the alien monster a crew-member of the crashed spaceship,<BR>
or was he something THEY had picked up and been victimized by as<BR>
well?<BR>
<BR>
			--Cynthia<BR>
<BR>
P.s. If you haven't read it, find it, and read it. It is a <BR>
sci-fi horror classic.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:45:28 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> Then there's always the "Dirty Pair" scenario. Kei & Yuri are a pair of<BR>
> top notch law enforcement types. There's just this one *little*<BR>
> problem. Whenever they get involved, disasters happen. It's 100%<BR>
> demostrable that it simply is *not* their fault. Their actions don't<BR>
> cause the disasters, and there's nothing they could have done to<BR>
> prevent them. Nonetheless, disasters occur. <BR>
> <BR>
> A *minor* example was when they were *passing thru* a space station. A<BR>
> robbery went bad and one of the crooks accidentaly activated a bomb that<BR>
> not merely blew a hole in the hull, it ble it right at an airtight<BR>
> bulkhead, thus compromising *two* sections of the station.<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't there a series of movies about these two, starring Mel Gibson<BR>
and Danny Glover? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
				--me<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:18:20 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The naming of things<BR>
<BR>
>>ObTrav: What kind of name is Alkhalikoi anyway?<BR>
><BR>
>Sounds Hawaiian/Polynesian<BR>
<BR>
Hawaiian, eh? I guess the old kingdom finally got justice. Yanks in Space,<BR>
indeed! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
3,000 years is a long time to retain a cultural/ethnic identity<BR>
(historically, anyway, although information technology may have now changed<BR>
that). How likely is it that Strephon would have anything resembling the<BR>
appearance of a Polynesian? How likely is it that the human population in<BR>
general will retain distinctive genotypes that one can distinguish visibly?<BR>
With specific exceptions  like the Sword Worlds notwithstanding, humaniti<BR>
seems to me to have become pretty "raceless." Or is this my own<BR>
wishful-thinking filter kicking in?<BR>
<BR>
Do we have a situation in the Imperium where there are 11,000 x n different<BR>
human ethnic groups, with at least one for each world and possibly hundreds?<BR>
<BR>
This could be really ugly, and could go a long way to explain why something<BR>
like the Rebellion could get so nasty (I know, I know, the Rebellion was<BR>
all just a dream).<BR>
<BR>
Or do we think that social sciences and technology have advanced at pace<BR>
with the hard sciences (given the way people behave in the canon<BR>
liturature, I would say not -- except, perhaps, for the Zhodani)?<BR>
<BR>
Okay, I guess this is just a roundabout way of asking: how balkanized is<BR>
*your* Imperium? Not Douglas's specifically, but anyone's. How do you see<BR>
issues of culture and ethnicity reflected in YTU? Do you see it breaking<BR>
down into the big three (Vilani, Zhodani, Solomani), regional (Sylean,<BR>
Denebian, Solomani), planetary (Capitalian, Regianian, Solomani), or even<BR>
on sub-planetary basis? Or do you expect a mix of all four? If it's a mix,<BR>
how is it biased?<BR>
<BR>
I would suppose that it would be mostly planetary or regional -- as recent<BR>
discussion has reminded us, off-world travel is not for the average citizen.<BR>
<BR>
For those of you into genetic drift and the like, how differentiated do you<BR>
think humaniti will have become (Ancient and human meddling aside)?<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 14:21:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
Cynthia Higginbotham refers to the "Dirty Pair" scenario:<BR>
> <BR>
> Wasn't there a series of movies about these two, starring Mel Gibson<BR>
> and Danny Glover? ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
Yeah, LETHAL WEAPON. There were 4 flicks about Riggs (Gibson) and<BR>
Murtaugh (Glover). What made the series even more hilarious is the<BR>
addition of Joe Pesci as Leo Goetz..."whatever Leo Wants, Leo Gets!" or<BR>
"First they F*** you over with the insurance and then they F*** you over<BR>
with the paperwork....."<BR>
<BR>
Can you **imagine** these guys in a Traveller setting????<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 15:05:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> Or just read John W. Campbell's "Who Goes There?" It's the basis for<BR>
> both versions of "The Thing", and while Carpenter stuck closer to the<BR>
> story, it's possible for you as a ref to do even better.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Now there's one I do have...Original publication too so its wrapped<BR>
carefully to avoid damage.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:58:44 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: No longer totally OT( was Re: Totally OT but ...)<BR>
<BR>
On 11/20/99 at 01:19 PM,  "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions on amazon.com.  I<BR>
>called them voice today and they were concerned about the order; they<BR>
>insitsed they had shipped it out promptly and that it was the carrier<BR>
>who dropped the ball.  When I discovered the carrier was U.S. Postal<BR>
>service, I understood. I don't know about other list members but my<BR>
>experience with US mail has been dreadful.  I always try to use UPS<BR>
>whenever possible as I know that if US mail can screw it up or lose<BR>
>it, they WILL.  Frankly I'm surprised anyone still uses them as inept<BR>
>as they are.<BR>
<BR>
<sigh> The USPS delivers millions of pieces of mail quickly and<BR>
safely, but once in a while they fail.  It's the failures we all<BR>
remember.  Here's my USPS failure story...my Mom sent my sister's<BR>
family their Christmas presents via USPS three years ago.  The box<BR>
never arrived, but in mid March a *piece* of the box with the<BR>
address on it was delivered to her with a "Sorry, but this is all<BR>
that's left" message.  Since than she sends only through UPS.  It<BR>
happens with the private carriers too, but it seems to happen less<BR>
often. <BR>
<BR>
>So, on a better note, they offered to ship a replacement free of<BR>
>charge via 2-day UPs (also at no charge) so I should FINALLY have my<BR>
>game by Wednesday. Sigh.. <BR>
<BR>
Good!  I've always liked Amazon's service and never had a problem,<BR>
but it's good to know they'll make a problem good.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav...Obvious!  Does the X-boat service *ever* fail to deliver<BR>
their messages?  Do they maintain a monopoly on certain classes of<BR>
message?  Are there *specific* commercial carriers of mail and small<BR>
package in the Imperium, or are those roles subsumed into the<BR>
operations of the various MegaCorps?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1367<BR>
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